To make up for the fact that I haven't posted in awhile, my intention was to create an elaborate commentary on Paul Rand's corporate identity work.

Instead, I've spent the past two evenings responding to an email that was mass forwarded to me. "OBAMA IS A TERRORIST" is the jist of the thing. For the most part, if I get messages like this I skim over it, roll my eyes, and move on. But for some reason - maybe because it was sent by a "peer" - I felt the strong urge to respond.

It's amazing to me - these are people who I have sat down to dinner with. They are well-educated, friendly, middle class citizens. They look just like you and me. And I assumed they were Republican, but not like this. I thought "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" not "someone has got to flip the burgers. It's an honorable job. At least these people are not out selling drugs on the street." - No, no really - read on my friend.

I guess I just thought that the only people who thought FOX was a legitimate news source were blue collar workers who call Capri Sun "juice".

The McCain campaign has got to stop encouraging the rumors that imply Obama is a terrorist, and stop the smearing him with year-old, discredited attacks. But they wont. And I think it'll get worse before it gets better.

Watch this Hannity "report" from earlier this week, when you have time. It aired earlier this week and will blow your mind. Obama and Friends - The History of Radicalism.

BUT before you do that, please read through my email interaction below:

First Message:
"If you believe what you like in the Gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself." St. Augustine

Got this from a friend VERY interesting! This letter is from a friend of ours who we believe wrote this with great concern. Both Jan and I think it is important to send this on so anyone that is open to ideas and wants what is best for our country can have good information to use when making up their mind regarding who to vote for. This is not a political slant, but a REAL person doing research on an individual who will be in charge of our country. Just read it and make your own decisions. Gary & Jan

To All My Friends, this is every important, please take the time to read it. This election has me very worried. So many things to consider. About a year ago I would have voted for Obama. I have changed my mind three times since than. I watch all the news channels, jumping from one to another. I must say this drives my husband crazy. But, I feel if you view MSNBC, CNN, and Fox News, you might get some middle ground to work with.
About six months ago, I started thinking 'where did the money come from for Obama'. I have four daughters who went to College, and we were middle class, and money was tight. We (including my girls) worked hard and there were lots of student loans. I started looking into Obama's life.

Around 1979 Obama started college at Occidental in California. He is very open about his two years at Occidental, he tried all kinds of drugs and was wasting his time but, even though he had a brilliant mind, did not apply himself to his studies. 'Barry' (that was the name he used all his life) during this time had two roommates, Muhammad Hasan Chandoo and Wahid Hamid, both from Pakistan. During the summer of 1981, after his second year in college, he made a 'round the world' trip. Stopping to see his mother in Indonesia, next Hyderabad in India, three weeks in Karachi, Pakistan where he stayed with his roommate's family, then off to Africa to visit his father's family.
My question - Where did he get the money for this trip? Nether I, nor any one of my children would have had money for a trip like this when they where in college. When he came back he started school at Columbia University in New York . It is at this time he wants everyone to call him Barack - not Barry. Do you know what the tuition is at Columbia ? It's not cheap! to say the least. Here did he get money for tuition? Student Loans? Maybe.

After Columbia , he went to Chicago to work as a Community Organizer for $12,000. a year. Why Chicago ? Why not New York ? He was already living in New York . By 'chance' he met Antoin 'Tony' Rezko, born in Aleppo Syria, and a real estate developer in Chicago . Rezko has been convicted of fraud and bribery this year. Rezko, was named 'Entrepreneur of the Decade' by the Arab-American Business and Professional Association'. About two years later, Obama entered Harvard Law School. Do you have any idea what tuition is for Harvard Law School? Where did he get the money for Law School ? More student loans?

After Law school, he went back to Chicago . Rezko offered him a job, which he turned down. But, he did take a job with Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland. Guess what? They represented 'Rezar' which Rezko's firm. Rezko was one of Obama's first major financial contributors when he ran for office in Chicago . In 2003, Rezko threw an early fundraiser for Obama which Chicago Tribune reporter David Mendelland claims was instrumental in providing Obama with 'seed money' for his U.S. Senate race. In 2005, Obama purchased a new home in Kenwoood District of Chicago for $1.65 million (less than asking price). With ALL those Student Loans - Where did he get the money for the property?
On the same day Rezko's wife, Rita, purchased the adjoining empty lot for full price. The London Times reported that Nadhmi Auchi, an Iraqi-born Billionaire loaned Rezko $3.5 million three weeks before Obama's new home was purchased. Obama met Nadhmi Auchi many times with Rezko. Now, we have Obama running for President.

Valerie Jarrett, was Michele Obama's boss. She is now Obama's chief advisor and he does not make any major decisions without talking to her first. Where was Jarrett born? Ready for this? Shiraz , Iran ! Do we see a pattern here? Or am I going crazy?

On May 10, 2008 The Times reported, Robert Malley advisor to Obama was 'sacked' after the press found out he was having regular contacts with 'Hamas', which controls Gaza and is connected with Iran. This past week, buried in the back part of the papers, Iraqi newspapers reported that during Obama's visit to Iraq, he asked their leaders to do nothing about the war until after he is elected, and he will 'Take care of things'. Oh, and by the way, remember the college roommates that where born in Pakistan ? They are in charge of all those 'small' Internet campaign contributions for Obama. Where is that money coming from? The poor and middle class in this country? Or could it be from the Middle East?

And the final bit of news. On September 7, 2008, The Washington Times posted a verbal slip that was made on 'This Week' with George Stephanapoulos. Obama on talking about his religion said, 'My Muslim faith'. When questioned, 'he make a mistake'. Some mistake!
All of the above information I got on line.

If you would like to check it - Wikipedia, encyclopedia, Barack Obama; Tony Rezko; Valerie Jarrett: Daily Times - Obama visited Pakistan in 1981; The Washington Times - September 7, 2008; The Times May 10, 2008. Now the BIG question - If I found out all this information on my own, Why haven't all of our 'intelligent' members of the press been reporting this?
A phrase that keeps ringing in my ear - 'Beware of the enemy from within'!

My response:

Note: Apparently no matter what their age, the majority of Conservative right wing Christian Republicans, who work for ibm, and have .aol and .yahoo accounts, do not bcc:, or erase the forwarding addresses. As a result I was able to email back to the dozens of recipients of the first message, as well as the recipients that were added as the thread trailed on.

My goodness.

Vote for whoever you want - but please check your facts before spreading garbage like this.

All the information in this lady's email was easily fact checked "on line" - which is where she states she got her information. However, it's all from one source:

Here are my findings about the people sited in the email:


I'd like to point out that a 13 second clip of him saying the words "my Muslim faith" taken from the full two minute clip (where it's clear to what he's referring to) isn't an honest representation of a person.

Check this snopes link please?!

Listen, vote for whoever you'd like.
But please remember that just because some one has a middle eastern name or was born in another country doesn't make them a terrorist.
Don't be lazy - do your own homework. Don't trust me or the lady who wrote the forward.

I've prayed about this, and the answer is blatantly clear for me.


Exodus 5:8-10 (New International Version)

8 But require them to make the same number of bricks as before; don't reduce the quota. They are lazy; that is why they are crying out, 'Let us go and sacrifice to our God.' 9 Make the work harder for the men so that they keep working and pay no attention to lies."

10 Then the slave drivers and the foremen went out and said to the people, "This is what Pharaoh says: 'I will not give you any more straw.

Then I received a few back:

Sorry Jessica - These facts were confirmed the other night on a Hannity special and they provided an hour long special on the linkage between Obama and well documented terrorist. VERY SCARY. They continue to discuss this every night - now I know it maybe tough but please watch fox news one night this week and I promise you will find these details and the back up. I do not think that this email (referencing his relationship with terrorist) has anything to do with his name terrorist - I think the facts are there. With that said please vote for who you believe in but know that many of these details are true and unfortunately our liberal press fail to bring these things to light. Just my 2 cents.



Interesting video on our economic crisis. Feel free to fact check:


Which I did. And responded to:

Both McCain and Obama have been supported by people whose policies damage our economy.
Back in May, Jim Johnson was one of three people brought on to help Obama evaluate running mates. He was never a financial adviser. He stepped down from that position when the Countyrwide Finacial Corp scandal surfaced and it was made known that he had $2million in home loans at below market average rates. Not pretty, but one of John McCain’s top advisors, John Green, lobbied for Ameriquest, one of the nation’s largest subprime lenders and a key player in the mortgage crisis.

John Green, and Wayne Berman, McCain's national finance co-chairman, billed over $720,000 in lobbying fees from 2005 through last year to Ameriquest Mortgage through their lobbying firm.

Also - take a look at Rick Davis' background with Freddie Mac. I wouldn't have known much about him, but in that first screen capture in the youtube video from politico, his name is mentioned. And McCain is pictured in the actual article! I think the most annoying thing about this video, is that it could have easily made the point that neither of them are angels when it comes to taking contributions from corrupt lobbyists. I think it'd be hard to find a politician who doesn't do so. When it comes to where each of them stand in economic issues - I'm forced to vote for someone who is looking out for me. - I make under 30,000 a year and don't have health insurance. Unfortunately, I seriously doubt in my life time I will ever make over $600,000 a year. McCain's policies aren't looking out for my best interests.

And I have to go to bed or I'd get started on Phil Gramm.

Also of interest: this article in the Washington Post.

Hope all's well,

Then I got this message without my response attached, and new addresses added to the cc: list. Great.

That has probably been the best u-Tube video I have seen.

At the end of the video there is a link to click on about the bill Obama supported and chaired to support teaching our children about sex education in grades K-5. I recommend that you click on that link as well. It is very informative and truly troubling. I can NOT begin to imagine my 4-yr learning about these topics starting next Fall when she enters Kindergarten.

Thanks for sharing D

And another response from 'L':

HI Jessica - Just a couple of points on your last statement about income and health insurance. I have worked very hard to get to the salary that I achieve today. For me this meant paying for my own university education and working full time, also post college working 2 jobs to sustain and climb the ladder. Now I do think that one day I will be making over 200K because my desire is to become a high level executive. Are you telling me that I should pay a higher percentage in taxes because I should fund the health care and lifestyle of others who did not want what I want? If you make 30k and I make 200K and we both pay 10% in taxes - that would mean you would pay 3K and me 20K - is that not fair? Why should the higher wage pay 25% instead of 10% (of course these are rounded numbers to make a point - but just to provide an example)? Trust me I know about the health care woes - as my father is a small business owner and unfortunately he has trouble getting insurance - although we do not think a Govt Insurance is the route to go. Think about the process in going to get your drivers license or ANY other agency in the government - can you imagine if you had to work with them to get approved to visit a doctor? Another thought - Would you want to become a doctor today if you had a cap on your salary? More government programs = higher taxes. :(


And this one, that set me over the edge:

Jessica, I just don't know where to begin and I have minimal time to respond while my child is napping. In another mail you mentioned that you make less than 30K per yr and do not have health insurance. Therefore, you're going to vote for Obama since he's looking out for YOU. That's where I shall begin.... this is what is wrong with this generation- many of us have the ME attitude. Our leaders need to be looking out for what is best for OUR COUNTRY, not you. I'm not sure what your education background is, but if you're making less than 30K per year than I would encourage you to do something about that. Key word- YOU. Please don't elect a Socialist and ask him to send you MY money. The money I earned, not you or anyone else. Income Redistribution is wrong and bad for our country, no matter how you spin it. How do you expect anyone to have the desire to sacrifice and work hard if the gov't is going to swoop in and take half of it way? What's the point? I'm not being tacky when I say this, but someone has got to flip the burgers. It's an honorable job. At least these people are not out selling drugs on the street. Not everyone can make 100K a year and live in a big house and drive a BMW. It just doesn't happen. People have to live within their means- be it 30K, 50K, 100K or 700K per yr. We all need to live w/n OUR means and stop being jealous of what others have and demand they pay more because it's just not fair! No, it IS fair. It IS fair that if you work hard and sacrafice and make the right choice that YOU get to keep what YOU earned. Obama said Healthcare is a 'Right.' Huh? No, we all pay for auto insurance, life insurance, renter's insurance... so, why doesn't HC fall into that realm of one's own responsibility. Have you taken the time to look into other countries that practice socialism and have a national HC plan? Ever wonder why so many Canadians come to the US to receive HC. Do you and your friends think you'll be able to pick up the phone and get an appt to see a specialist easily? No, look at other countries...plan on a waiting list months long. Do you think America's brightest young people are going to choose to go into the medical profession when they'd incur a couple hundred thousand dollars in student loans, and 10 plus years of school so the gov't can tell them they can only make 150,000 per year. What happen to the free market? Let's go back to YOU. Obama will help YOU by only increasing taxes on the top 5%, right? So, he says..... did he also tell you that 3 out of 4 of those in that bracket are small business owners. Both Democrats and Republicans have agreed that it is small businesses that drive our economy. What do you think those 5% are going to do when THEIR taxes go up because YOU don't want to pay your share. Cut jobs like the one you have. My father is a small business owner and works 7 days a week and sometimes over 100 hundred hours a week during peak season. How many hours a week do YOU work? If it's not upwards around 60-70, please dry your tears because those are the hours most of us earning high salaries are forced to pull down. Can you help me out with a Math question? How can Obama cut taxes for 95% of us when only 55% pay income taxes. At a salary of 30K per year, you're not even paying into the pool? But, you want me to pay even more.... Jessica, what is fair about that? Why would you risk the security of our nation by electing someone that clearly has ties with Radical Terrorist, or someone whose preacher for the last 20 years is a black separatist, or someone that was in bed with Fannie but has the audacity to stand up in front of America and claim it was the republicans fault. Sure-in a democratic controlled congress... sure? He was the second largest recepient of Fannie contributions, no wonder why he wasn't trying to implement regulations on them. Where is the man's intergrity? You said you have been praying to GOD, and so have I. Man, we talk every night. I pray he puts our hearts and minds in the right place, I pray we allow GOD back into our lives instead of pushing him out, I pray he gives us the wisdom to make the right decisions because I want my son to grow up in the America I did. You just really need to pray harder so GOD will hear you. You think GOD wants you to elect a man that voted not to give medical care to babies born ALIVE after an abortion had been performed? Really, this is the person you want leading us... this is what YOU call a SPIRITUAL leader, a man of GOD. If that is the case, I understand why GOD put 'call block' on your phone, Girlfriend. This country was built on greatness, hard work, sacrifice.... those who make the right choices and work hard are the ones that should reap the rewards of their hard work. Those who make less than wise choices have to live with the consequence of THEIR choices. What if I choose not to have auto insurance but I rear-ended you? What then? What can't you understand that I just could not afford insurance and you do the nice liberal thing and you pay for the damages? You'd tell me it was not YOUR fault and that it was I that made the mistake and caused the accident. Well, bingo..... don't know if you've caught on to the recurring theme of my Rah Rant yet.... but it's about taking Responsibility for YOUR choices- your choices not to further your education, your choices not to get a second job, your choices...... not mine..... YOURS. I agree that everyone should have healthcare, but eveyone should have to pay for thier own coverage. Girl, I have enough mouths to feed and my checkbook can't afford your too. Please listen to talk radio and watch FOX News for a balanced report on what is really going on with BOTH candidates. The main stream media has a liberal agenda and delibeately chooses not to inform you of all truth about Obama. Love, FR

Which I responded to:

Hey F, I'm on my lunch break, so I don't have much time to respond either, but I want to explain a few things.

First congratulations on the baby - it doesn't seem like it's possible that I haven't seen you in over a year!

I went to college. I worked full time and went to school part time, until I had saved enough to work part time and go to school full time. I did not receive help from my family - not because they did not want to help, but because they could not. I received a loan that I am still paying off at age 30, and scholarships.

I work 40 hours a week and rent an apartment with 2 other females. I guess you're right - I could get probably obtain a better paying job, but I happen to like the one I have. And I feel confident that there is potential for growth - both personally and monetarily.

I agree with President Bush in his 2006 speech: "The role of government is to create an environment in which people are willing to risk capital, to take risk; an environment in which people are willing to work to realize their dreams"--

And that's what I've done.
I work as a manager of a small business (we're an office of 4), helping to make an entrepreneur's dream of working for herself come true. We are growing steadily - and I play a rewarding part of the development.

I had no idea that you and Nathan made over $600K a year. If that's the case, then I would encourage YOU to manage your money better - I would think you would be able to support 3 on an income like that. (Obama's proposal
would not increase or decrease taxes on citizens making $226,982 to $603,403). Take another look at this chart.

I agree with you that a flat tax is the most fair. But I think it is a little too simplistic with where our country is fiscally right now. And I'd like to point out that McCain is not proposing a flat tax either. He want's to give a bigger break to individuals making over 2.87 million that to those who are below the poverty line.

I think one of the fundamental differences between you and I is that I see government as playing a paternal role. And I want my "Dad" to be looking out not just for me, but also my brothers and sisters, so that our family unit thrives as a whole.

I don't want a BMW or a big house Farrah. I want to be able to get my yearly physical exam and not worry that if I do, I may not be able to pay my rent. I'm not jealous of you. Or of people making double, triple or quadruple what I make. I live within my means, and don't have exorbitant debt (outside of my school loan!) I don't have cable, I don't buy new clothes, I don't go to fancy restaurants - and I am perfectly okay with that. I just want to know that the kids that live next door to me are going to grow up with the opportunities to not "flip burgers" if they don't want to do so. I want this country to be back on track.

Proverbs 22:16 He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich—both come to poverty.
Proverbs 28:27
He who gives to the poor will lack nothing, but he who closes his eyes to them receives many curses

Oh, and by the way - I do watch/read FOX news, along with BBC, NYT, and CNN. I've seen the Hannity Reports.


In the meantime, I got another one from CH:

I think your passion and commitment to politics is very commendable and your emails have been insightful. You are correct when you say that both politicians are accountable for demonstrating bad behavior and making bad political decisions in their careers. If you can name me one politician that has not been swayed to make a bad decision by a lobbyist or their constituents .... I would be thrilled.

There are such fundamental differences between Obama and McCain AND
between President Bush and McCain. Just because McCain is a conservative does not mean that he and President Bush have the same solutions to our current economy. They do obviously share the same basic conservative principals such as less gov't is better, pro-life ... yada...yada ... yada...

Bottom line ... I could sit here all day and constantly send you
snippets and one-liners of terrible political decisions that Obama has made in his brief career as a US Senator, and I will be glad to do so if you want... but I feel I just need to share my opinion since you have so eloquently shared yours with the rest of us.

My husband and I are part of this middle class and have worked so
terribly hard to get here through college, long hours, multiple jobs ... doing whatever WE could to make a better life for ourselves and now for our children without expecting or relying on the assistance of government. Please answer me WHY my husband and I are obligated to pay more of our hard earned money into government assisted programs that do not work through our tax dollars which take away from us being able to put OUR earned money away into a retirement account so the we are not a burden to tax payers in our old age, but instead are living out our golden years on OUR hard earned money that we put away and saved. The reason I am told is because "it is fair." How is that fair?

My husband and I also incorporated our business in order for us to get
health care for us and our children. Let me tell you we pay a hefty premium for our health insurance, and to be able to go to the dr.'s of our choosing. We do not lash back at Americans and say it is only "fair" that you foot the bill for me and my family because I can not get health insurance otherwise.

Let me point out the theme from my above statements.... I am
accountable for my behavior. I am accountable for how hard I want to work and how much I want to make. I am accountable for myself. That is the attitude that the American people should have and not what does the government do for ME. People should be held accountable for their behavior / actions instead of the entitlement attitude that you and so many Americans seem to unfortunately posses.

This great country affords everyone the opportunity to be successful.
Case in point ... BARACK OBAMA. Just look at Obama. He came from a very poor economic background, but he persevered and look at him today. WOW .... OUTSTANDING .... living the American Dream! Do you think if Obama had, had the attitude "I will not ever make over $600,000 a year in my lifetime" just as you stated, he would have ever achieved the successes he is experiencing today?

Success is what YOU make of it not the government! It is not "my" (meaning tax payer) responsibility to look after you. That is your job and your responsibility.

Come election day, I will not vote for Obama because I believe government spending needs to be cut, I do believe health care needs to be reformed but absolutely not in a socialistic fashion, I do believe in finding alternative fuels... ALL of these things which you and I seem to agree on as well as the McCain/Palin campaign. I do believe completely in the fundamental principles of the McCain / Palin politics... and what a breath of fresh air Palin is going to be. She is not a typical Washington politician. She is one of us. She is middle class. She gets reform. McCain is going to work hard so that you can achieve 600,000 a year, Jessica, if you work hard and that is what you set out to achieve... but not at the expense of every tax-paying American.

This is just my two cents and thank you so much for sending yours

I wrote her back and said, I guess we'll agree to disagree! with a smiley face emoticon. She wrote back thanks, and I thought I might actually be done with this mess.

A then, a new voice (with my responses erased) and new cc's:

I have nothing new to offer from what FR & Ch so eloquently stated, but I did have to commend each of you for being so passionate regarding the survival of our wonderful country and for those that run it. Isn't it a beautiful thing that we, as young Americans, are so informed and eager for change? For the first time in history we may have more people vote for the most powerful man in the world than for the new American Idol.

As the baby sister to 1 Air Force Major and to 1 Air Force enlisted solider...I want the person who will guide them safely and securely into battle and not needlessly deploy them. I want someone who knows how to kick some enemy butt and get the hell out. Selfishly...I want someone who knows what it's like to be on the front lines and a POW...that person is the most skilled at AVOIDING that situation happening to my family. I can't even imagine having someone run our country who had no desire to serve it. My brothers are willing to die to protect this country yet they would answer to someone who chose to NOT make that commitment also? Ludicrous. They have both been to the Middle East on numerous occasions and have personally brought back numerous of our fallen solider's. They have fought for each of you and your ability to vote next month and speak your mind regarding this election.

The world is watching to see what happens next month. We must never forget tha t AMERICA sets the standard by which the world follows. We must have a leader that can set that standard AND uphold it for himself and others.

I have other ways I should be spending my time, but...I responded:

Thanks J!
My Uncle just got back his third tour(!) in Afghanistan. And my brother in law is serving in the Navy, so I can relate to wanting what's best for the people (family) who put their lives on the line for all the luxuries we enjoy.

Let's remember to take good care of them when they get home safely too! I worked for the
Veterans Village of San Diego for a year, which helps with employment and training upon homecoming, and it was one of the most enriching experiences of my life.

And then hopefully the last of it all, a response from R:

Hey Jessica.
I apologize if I came off a bit brash, but I am very passionate (as are you) about my fundamental beliefs with Gov't and it's involvement in our lives. It has been a long time since we've seen one another, and I look forward to you meeting our little guy one day.

I too went to college and worked full-time, paying for each class, each book, etc. I just finished paying off my loan last year. My sisters, Christy and Lindy, are still paying on theirs. My parents thought it best that we earned on education, that we would appreciate it more. There were days I disagreed with that position, but am grateful for the lesson. It instilled in me the work ethic I have today.

I re-read my mail to you trying to figure out where I gave the impression that we made 600K/yr. Oh goodness, if that were the case, we'd be on a beach in Hawaii and not sitting at home reading emails-haha. We make less than a quarter of that, I assure you. We are now a one income family. That is why I too do not buy new clothes, and wear the same 5 outfits over and over again, we don't take a lot of trips anymore, or eat out a lot..... let's just say that we have tightened our belts too.

We all have dreams....and I admire that you're going after yours. Sometimes I wonder if I dream big enough, but then I look at my little man and see him chasing me around the house and I know that the dream of being a mom, one who is there for him every moment HAS come true. And for that, I am blessed.

I agree that a Flat tax just might not be possible given our national debt. So, our next President and Congress need to tightened their belts and cut the gov't spending. Obama plans to take more and spend more..... don't kid yourself.

You said you just want to go get an annual exam once a year and it not prohibit you from making rent. We have one medical organization founded and operated by our gov't. The staffing, operations..... clinics, hospitals, etc. all solely handled by "Dad." It's the Veterans Administration and is there for the sole purpose of providing our Veterans with the best HC our tax payer money can buy. We have approx. 1 million veterans that are to receive the "best" care from our gov't. Well, did you realize that the Walter Reed Veterans Hospital was condemned by congress last yr for reasons like: rats, toxic mold, outdated equipment. That's the best our gov't could do for those who have served our country and with an unlimited budget? Imagine the worse they could do? I understand that we need to find a solution to our HC crisis, but gov't is not always the answer and we should not look to them as our "parent" either. Take what I wrote above- the irrefutable failure of a HC system for vets- only 1 million of them. Imagine what the gov't would do with 300 million? Just imagine...... Scary!

I have looked and I do not see where in the Bible it says it's ok to take from thy neighbor on the right and give it to the neighbor on the left? I know it's better to give than receive, but that should be an individual's choice. Right now my husband and I pay 33% to the Federal Gov't, then another 7.5% for SS and Medicare. Not done there, we've still got property taxes, state taxes, utility taxes, sales tax.... So, we pay more than half our household income to taxes. Nothing anyone says can convince me that this is fair, or as Biden would say "patriotic."

I read the chart you sent, and again.... those who pay payroll taxes (only 55% of us) are the ones who SHOULD get a tax break. Tax break.... I prefer it being called what it is... allowed to hold onto more of OUR money. But, it's impossible to give 95% of Americans a tax break from the Federal Gov't when 45% don't pay payroll taxes?

I'm frustrated with ALL politicians and hope I see real change with the next Administration.

So, let's agree to disagree and next time we see one another we'll talk about something more fun!! In the meantime, take care and have a great weekend. LOL


And my final!!! response:

Hey FR!
I've really enjoyed hearing your take on things.

I'm glad you recognize that under both plans, the taxes for American families like you and I (under 600K) are going to be cut! And that both parties are proposing a cut that is very similar in percentage (approx. 2%) for our bracket.

I think the think that concerns me the most is that I've met a lot of people who make around 200K and consider themselves "upper class" who think Obama is proposing huge tax increases for them.

***"I read the chart you sent, and again.... those who pay payroll taxes (only 55% of us) are the ones who SHOULD get a tax break. Tax break.... I prefer it being called what it is... allowed to hold onto more of OUR money. But, it's impossible to give 95% of Americans a tax break from the Federal Gov't when 45% don't pay payroll taxes? "

I agree - The federal government has been reducing income taxes over the last few decades, but it has allowed the payroll tax (which we need- it finances Social Security and Medicare) to creep up. That's why overall tax rates for the bottom 80 percent of earners (um, you and me) have not fallen as much as rates for the affluent (not you and me).

Under the current economic conditions (meaning this week- geez), it's hard to say what proposals McCain or Obama would advocate once in office. But I still believe that under Obama, tax increases would be far more targeted and limited than Republicans have tried to claim in this campaign. Trying to ease the burden on low- and middle-income households (under 225K), while trying to bring the deficit under control, still seems to me the best course of action.

Sorry - guess I wasn't ready to agree to disagree quite yet! We should have a TV show. hehe.
Have a great day - and yes let's dicuss something more fun next time. Like Britney Spears new video or something! sheesh.


So that's what I'm doing. Agreeing to disagree. Sort of.

I can't invest anymore time into this. I'd much rather research mid-century graphic designers. But it has been so fascinating to get these perspectives first hand.

Afterthought: I find it really interesting that when you visit Obama's YouTube channel, featured is an inspiring message of Hope directed at the Change that America desperately needs right now. When you visit the McCain YouTube channel, it's a message of associating Obama with domestic terrorism. It's a great example of how both campaigns have been managed since the beginning.


  1. wow.

    you're such a trooper.

    i have avoided these sorts of battles since taking on way too many of them in elections past and ending up just feeling drained and miserable that people with their mean-spirited horrible world-view even exist. my new philosophy is that it's hopeless to argue with these nutbags. i mean, maybe not completely hopeless. but for me it's hopeless and it just leaves me feeling raw.

    it was kinda painful even just reading this whole thread. but it was nice at least that it wasn't ME caught in the middle, but YOU -- ya know, selfish YOU! god.

    anyway, i'm glad you came out with what i see as a pretty clear win, even if i would say i doubt you changed any votes.

  2. A couple of things

    1-30 years old? Holy shit, are you ancient or what, grandma?
    2-Trying to combat these sorts of smears is like fightin' (as one S. Palin might put it) the windmills. (Note big city elitist reference to foreign lit. By the way, arugula lattes are all the rage here in NYC. I drink two a day and scoff at those who don't.)
    3-You're a saint. I'd give you a hug were I there.
    5-Progressive income tax > flat income tax.
    6-Again, you're a saint. An old-as-dust saint, but a saint nonetheless.

    Great post, have fun at Disneytown.

  3. I'm voting for Obama. End of story. I have watched little of the debates, I just know he's the lesser of two evils.

    At least our two votes will cancel out two of your cc's.

    Now I'm off to bed to rest up for more important spider birthday cupcakes.